Independence

[Govangirl]

Following Wee Eck's embarrassing car crash of a debate, feel free to spend a few days licking wounds before returning here to continue the 'whole heid in the sand' circus act. A round of applause from the circle seats

[ionnsaigh]

Aye, it takes Two, tae tango, Darling.

Your man appeared to be a upper class twit. Ours fared little better.

Give me my soapbox and Sauchiehall Street.

[gizmo]

As tradition dictates not quite right wee C. Darling is an upper class twit, your man didnt fare better, little or otherwise.
Doesnt bode well. Oh and by the way the Lochend used to be a good wee pub, nae rubbish in there.

[lochend]

Is the lochend - where awe the rubbish collects ?[/quote]
Unless I have missed something that seems like an insult. Didn't take long for you to resort to that level.For you info Lochend(st) was where a beloved aunt lived.

[WC1]

From where I sit in the cheap seats, neither gentleman deserved a round of applause. Salmond was unexpectedly subdued, allowing Darling to be all shouty and pointy, not letting his questions to Salmond be answered. The FM did land a couple of good punches, especially on the supposed 'new powers'. Darling's pre-occupation with the non-issue of currency allowed him to conceal the lack of vision in the 'No' campaign. I'm certainly not burying my head in the sand, Govangirl. I know that a newly-independent Scotland will face problems, but they'll be our problems, and we're the people who understand them best and therefore are best able to find the solutions to them that are right for us. Far more important are the possibilities that independence opens up. Better Together No Thanks tell us we can have 'the best of both worlds' by voting 'No'. When you tease that out you find that all the best things on the Scottish side are the things we've done and decided ourselves under our own Scottish government, albeit with the limited powers we've been allowed to have so far. It's hard to find the best things we get from the Union. Would it be austerity and the massive cuts that are still to come, the attack on the social compact, the accelerating privatisation of the health service, being forced to spend billions on renewing weapons of mass destruction that we don't want or need, the increasing level of poverty and the growing inequality in wealth and opportunity, the centralisation of power and wealth in the south east, having to spend billions of Scotland's money on HS2 and the extension of the London Crossrail system, the scandal of peerages handed out to Tory party donors, the implementation of a policy agenda that favours those very donors? Honestly, 'haud me back'! It's not about the currency, though Darling wants us to think it is. It's about taking the power into our own hands to make our country different to - and better than - the one it is now.

[gizmo]

It isnt really a non issue though. We can use the pound but it will be controlled by Westmister as I understand it. Not ideal surely.

[ionnsaigh]

As English people will no doubt be affected by Scottish Independence should they be allowed to vote?Just a thought.

Of course they can ( if they reside in Scotland ) You see it's not a question of race. By the same token, should the people of Spain, be given the vote on Catalan independence, or for that matter Gibraltar ?
Can anyone provide any countries that have rejected independence from the UK ?

Is the lochend - where awe the rubbish collects ?
Unless I have missed something that seems like an insult. Didn't take long for you to resort to that level.For you info Lochend(st) was where a beloved aunt lived.

If that was the case, then it was a result of your previous post.

" Comrades!" "the bourgeoisie of Scotland!" Poor Putin with "Nato surrounding his country!" My God there are still people who subscribe to the Morning Star!

If that is not insulting, then what is ? you started it by your insulting remarks.

[ionnsaigh]

As tradition dictates not quite right wee C. Darling is an upper class twit, your man didnt fare better, little or otherwise.
Doesnt bode well. Oh and by the way the Lochend used to be a good wee pub, nae rubbish in there.

Tradition is it, well let's throw that right oot the windae, the very nature of tradition is backward and inward facing. One only has to give, even the most fleeting of glances to see a society, bound down with an unelected head of state, and the opening of the parliament each year. This is the real show ,they are a costly laughing stock.
See I got it right about the lochend then.

[WC1]

On currency, gizmo wrote:-

It isnt really a non issue though. We can use the pound but it will be controlled by Westmister as I understand it.

Gizmo, I posted a link to some good stuff from Bella Caledonia on currency a while back on another thread. Here's an even more interesting link from the Research Director of the Adam Smith Institute, which I think is usually referred to as a 'right-wing think tank'. It's posted on the conservativehome website, never conspicuously a supporter of 'Yes'.

http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/08/sam-bowman-an-answer-to-salmonds-problem-scotland-could-use-sterling-without-a-central-bank.html

The bottom line is that Plan A - using the pound in the framework of a currency union - has advantages for both Scotland and the rUK. Darling himself has called it 'logical and sensible'. And it won't mean being controlled from Westminster any more than being in the euro means Italy and France are ruled from Frankfurt by the European Central Bank.

Plan B, and I can't for the life of me understand why Salmond didn't just say so, is just to use the pound without a currency union, which all sides acknowledge we're perfectly free to do. That is all upside for Scotland and all downside for rUK. Those prats Cameron, Osborne, Clegg and Milliband know this but they're relying on having said enough to make folk feart. A Yes vote on 18 September and on the 19th they'll be falling over themselves to offer a currency union. They won't call it that in order to save face, but that's what it'll be.

For once I find myself agreeing with the Adam Smith Institute.The whole currency issue is a red herring to pressure us into a 'No' vote and we'd be fools to be taken in by it.

[WC1]

I quite enjoy these wee videos by Stephen Paton, tackling some of the current IndyRef issues:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=JOfp3ZPY4RM

[Govangirl]

Och, I love a wee bit of entertainment myself. You know what? I'm changing tack - I urge you to go and vote Yes in your droves.

The pound? Vote for a currency union that although will not work without close political and fiscal integration and leave us unable to set our own interest rates, dinnae fear, the rest of the continuing UK will take the risk of having to bail out an independent Scotland if (when?) it gets into fiscal difficulties.

Poverty? Vote for strengthening the new welfare system and don't fret that the SNP have taken £1billion out of anti-poverty programmes already, just put your trust in them and it will be alright.

Pensions, health service, education? It will all be affordable once we get rid of the nasty Westminster people, the English and particularly those that live in the South East and have been stealing off us for years.

Yes, vote Yes! The only drawback is that we won't be able to rely on the 'Poor us, we're getting a raw deal' rhetoric any longer but we'll soon find something else.

Seriously, I'm not dealing in sarcasm here, I really, REALLY want a Yes vote. I say YES!

[Shona]

...society, bound down with an unelected head of state, and the opening of the parliament each year. This is the real show ,they are a costly laughing stock.

And the Queen will remain the unelected head of state in an independent Scotland.

[LANDROVER ROGER]

Well?Is it yes or on?

[EMDEE]

Well?Is it yes or on?

[WC1]

I'm not dealing in sarcasm here

Oh really? (As my good friend Mrs Brown used to say.)